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Apr 30, 2024

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.


Justin Smulison interviews returning guest Jana Utter. Jana is the 2022 Risk Management Honor Roll inductee and a former RIMS SERMC Chair. Jana remains active on RIMS committees. On May 6 at 2:45 pm, she will co-host a RISKWORLD session, Sustainability Reporting: Making ERM Transparent: Environmental, Social and Governance in ROOM 25AB.

The SEC is in the news with final and proposed Climate Disclosure Rules announced. Jana shares her knowledge, experience, and risk philosophy, a cluster of acronyms, and why ERM needs to connect more fully with ESG. Jana will be co-hosting a session on the ESG track with Bob Wirth at RISKWORLD 2024. Listen in to learn more about emerging ESG risk reporting and disclosure.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:14] Public registration for RISKWORLD 2024 is now open. Explore infinite opportunities with RIMS from May 5th through May 8th, 2024, in San Diego, California. Register at

[:31] About today’s episode of RIMScast. My friend Jana Utter returns to discuss ERM, ESG, and the new Climate Reporting Disclosures; the SEC, the CSRD, and more. We’ve got a lot of acronyms today!

[1:01] As you know, RISKWORLD 2024 is coming up from May 5th through May 8th, 2024, in sunny San Diego, California. Registration is open at Register today! There’s a link in this episode's show notes.

[1:22] In Episode 276 of RIMScast we had opening keynote Peter Diamandis join us. Check out that episode for just a taste of what’s in store for RISKWORLD 2024. The full roster of keynotes has been announced! I’m so excited! We will be welcoming Academy Award-winning actress, director, and activist, Marlee Matlin!

[1:46] For our industry keynote, we will be rejoined by Evan G. Greenberg, the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Chubb Limited and Chubb Group. That session will be sponsored by Chubb. Just announced, our closing keynote on May 8th will be Daymond G. John. You know him from Shark Tank. He’s also the Founder of FUBU. I’m a big fan!

[2:10] I’m extremely excited about that closing keynote on May 8th! Experience all the energies of our keynotes at RISKWORLD! Register at We want to see you there!

[2:24] Today’s guest is one of my favorites. She is Jana Utter, the Vice President of Enterprise Risk Management at Centene Corporation. In 2022, RIMS named her to the Risk Management Honor Roll. She is the former chair of the RIMS Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management  Council. Jana is knowledgeable about ERM and ESG.

[2:50] Since there were new SEC Climate Disclosure Rules announced, I wanted Jana to come back on the show and fill us in on what we need to know. This dialogue will dovetail with her upcoming RISKWORLD session on May 6th at 2:45 p.m. in Room AB25, Sustainability Reporting, Making ERM Transparent. It is part of the ESG track. She’ll be co-presenting with Bob Hirth.

[3:25] Jana Utter, welcome back to RIMScast! Jana was the 2022 RIMS Risk Management Honor Roll Inductee. Jana and Justin go back quite a few years. This is her third time as a RIMScast guest. Jana was the chair of the RIMS Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council. She misses it a bit but has moved on to other RIMS volunteer activities.

[4:10] Jana is here to discuss the SEC Climate Disclosures in the news. The U.S. SEC proposed final rules for Sustainability Reporting Standards. Also, the EU Corporate Standard Reporting Directive (CSRD) is making headlines.

[5:02] Jana thinks it is important as risk professionals to think of sustainability in the same way that we think about enterprise risk management. They are both important. Jana speaks of the 2017 COSO ERM Update, Integrating Strategy with Performance.

[5:29] That COSO document says that ERM helps enhance performance by more closely linking strategy and business objectives to risk. ERM affects value strategy and is linked to the business. The COSO framework also discusses how ERM leads to better decision-making.

[5:48] The International Sustainability Standards Board (ISSB) says sustainability factors are becoming part of mainstream investment decision-making. Companies are called upon to provide high-quality global comparable information on sustainability reported risks and opportunities.

[6:28] As ERM professionals, we are trying to identify risks to help protect the value and future ongoing business concerns of the company. Sustainability reporting is trying to do the same thing, protect the long-term value of the company. To Jana, that seems to be a natural fit.

[7:00] Justin and Jana agree that the data should support the story-telling of the organization or the risk professional. Sustainability reporting is a big part of that data, just as financial statements are.

[7:17] Sustainability reporting disclosures publish additional information by a company to inform stakeholders, including investors, business partners, employees, and customers. Jana thinks about it the same way as about financial statement information, which caters to the same stakeholder audience.

[8:14] Jana notes it’s important to know which of the different reporting directives for sustainability reporting standards apply to your company in the jurisdictions or geographies in which your company operates. Global sustainability disclosures are not 100% consistent. In the U.S., some states have additional expectations for ESG reporting above the SEC rules.

[10:10] ESG is showing up in commercials. Jana finds that interesting as her friends and family still don’t know what the acronym ESG means. It’s appearing in the mainstream, with DEI.

[11:31] Jana says that a lot of people who are responsible for enterprise risk management, including her industry peers, are not also responsible for sustainability reporting and disclosures. How can risk professionals get connected to the sustainability reporting team?

[12:23] Jana recommends risk professionals use the RACI matrix: Who’s Responsible? Who’s Accountable? Who’s Consulted? And Who’s Informed? If you’re not in this matrix, ask to join it as a consultant. She lists ways to contribute by connecting to different areas of the company.

[13:56] It’s important to know where your company operates. U.S. companies with no operations outside the U.S. may be able to follow the IFRS SASB Sustainable Accounting Standards and the SEC Climate Disclosure rules and other SEC-related rules that cover sustainability, as well as any state rules.

[14:59] If you’re U.S.-based with any operations in Europe, you’re going to want to monitor CSRD and make sure you understand and follow that protocol. That should cover you for the majority of any sustainability risks in the U.S.

[15:42] Jana’s go-tos are the International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS), International Sustainability Standards Board (ISSB), and Sustainability Accounting Standards Board (SASB). ISSB includes the Taskforce on Climate-Related Financial Disclosure (TCFD). TCFD and CDP (formerly Carbon Disclosure Project) are closely aligned.

[16:46] Jana repeats, pay attention to the IFRS and what they do. IFRS is geared to the investor community. Also watch the Global Reporting Initiative (GRI), which is focused on social and environmental impact reporting.

[17:46] SASB is the Sustainability Accounting Standards Board. Justin invites you to look for these acronym links in the show notes.

[18:06] RIMS plug time! You can sign up now for RISKWORLD pre-conference workshops. They will all be held on May 4th and 5th at the San Diego Convention Center. The link is in this episode’s show notes.

[18:19] The topics include but are not limited to Applying and Integrating ERM, Fundamentals of Insurance, and a RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop. Go to, go to Learn, and then Workshops and you’ll find them there.

[18:35] RIMS Virtual Workshops: Visit to see the full calendar. Virtual workshops are in session, beginning in June, starting with Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management. That’s a three-part course that begins on June 6th. We’ve got Fundamentals of Insurance on June 11th and 12th.

[18:55] We’ve got Fundamentals of Risk Management on June 18th and 19th and we’ve got Captives as an Alternate Risk Financing Technique on June 26th and 27th. More information about these workshops and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page and a link is in this episode’s show notes.

[19:13] If you attend RISKWORLD, be sure to download the RIMS Events App. This is different from the RIMS App, available only to members. The RIMS Events App will help you keep sessions organized, take notes, communicate with other attendees, and a whole lot of other great features because there’s so much happening. This is a great way to stay on schedule.

[19:38] On May 8th, at 2:10 p.m., please go over to the Global Studio and check out RIMScast Live for a special session with RIMS Risk Manager of the Year 2024, Steve Robles. Steve received the award for his fantastic work with LA County. We will discuss his career and we will give all of you a chance to ask him anything that’s on your mind.

[20:03] Steve’s a great guest. We’ve already  recorded next week’s episode together. In a clip from the episode, Steve says his risk group at LA County was responsible for about 100K county employees. He didn’t know all their names, but if he knew their name, that was probably a bad thing! Be sure to tune in to RIMScast next week for more podcasting gold!

[20:35] Steve was a lot of fun and our session at the Global Studio on May 8th at 2:10 p.m. is going to be a blast! Be there!

[20:43] Webinars: On April 30th, to close out Supply Chain Integrity Month, we welcome Moody’s, who will present Resilience in Turbulent Times: Navigating Geopolitical Challenges in Supply Chains. Our friends from TÜV SÜD GRC will return on May 23rd with Respond to Emerging Risks with a Winning Property Loss Control Formula.

[21:08] On June 6th, Evident ID makes its RIMS Webinar debut with Uncovering Hidden Risks in Your Third-Party Risk Management Program. On June 13th, our friends at Riskonnect return to present Unlocking the Value of Business Continuity and Insurable Risk Management. That’s a great line-up for the next couple of months!

[21:30] Visit to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[21:38] The RIMS ERM Conference 2024 will be held on November 18th and 19th in Boston, Massachusetts. RIMS continues to present the best conference agenda by featuring the most engaged and knowledgeable risk professionals leading the discussions.

[21:53] RIMS wants to hear from you. Submit your session by Friday, May 3rd. A link is in this episode’s show notes. The best submissions will address current and future issues facing ERM practitioners and provide takeaways for an audience of risk professionals, business leaders, students, governmental officers, legal professionals, and more.

[24:15] You must keep it relevant to ERM and Strategic Enterprise Risk Management. Remember, product sales pitches are not acceptable nor appropriate as part of the RIMS ERM Conference Education Program.

[22:46] Jana Utter has a session at RISKWORLD on May 6th at 2:45 p.m. with Bob Hirth, called Sustainability Reporting: Making ERM Transparent. It’s part of the ESG track. It will be in Room 25AB. Jana is excited about the session. There are a lot of great sessions that run concurrently, but everybody should head over to Room 25AB on May 6th at 2:45 to hear more from Jana!

[23:35] Risk professionals are supposed to have a line of communication to the C-suite and the enterprise to take these announcements seriously. Jana says a risk professional has to treat sustainability reporting and disclosures like any other risk. An emerging risk can sometimes bubble up to become a noticed risk.

[24:42] Jana tells of her experience in reporting what ERM saw as up-and-coming emerging risks, capturing ESG and sustainability-related risks, and reporting disclosure expectations bubbling up in emerging risks. It eventually gets the attention when the time is right.

[25:40] Keep any emerging risk in the reporting to the extent possible. When the time is right, it will become important, not only to the ERM professional but to others where you’ve been trying to raise the flag. Risk professionals, make a note!

[26:19] Jana says Scope 3 Emissions are pretty complex. It is comprised of 15 categories. Scope 1 is a company’s use of natural gas. Scope 2 is its use of electricity. They’re more straightforward.

[27:16] The focus of Scope 3 is supply chain emissions. Most enterprise risk management professionals may not know or have had any reason to focus on how many suppliers their company has. It can be thousands or tens of thousands. It’s challenging.

[27:54] The Greenhouse Gas Protocol and other authoritative sources have ways to categorize types of vendors and use categorizations as a way to calculate emissions. It’s still very complex and much more subjective.

[28:30] To get the quality of reporting you need for financial statements, with external auditor reviews and having the same level of controls and tightness on the calculations, Scope 3 becomes quite complex.

[28:56] Justin reads from the U.S. EPA guidance on Scope 3: “The result of activities from assets not owned or controlled by the reporting organization but that the organization indirectly affects in its value chain.” Scope 3 emissions include up-chain and down-chain. A risk professional has a lot of work to do dealing with Scope 3 emissions.

[29:37] Jana mentions that a challenge around Scope 3 is double counting. A manufacturer uses a third party to deliver goods to a retailer. Both the manufacturer and the retailer count the third party for emissions. Communication has to occur between the manufacturer and its retailers. So Scope 3 emissions reporting is not required now.

[31:04] Jana talks about possible consequences of the failure of an enterprise to comply with the rule. It will probably be similar to any other failure to report accurately. You’ll get a letter with a deadline to comply. There could be levels of penalties. It could be the same as not filing your financial statements on time. Jana suggests you check with your legal counsel.

[33:10] Another trend Jana sees is the rise of Artificial Intelligence. It’s on everybody’s mind. There are sessions at RISKWORLD on the upside and downside risks and benefits of AI. AI has the ability to bring together a lot of information for the ERM practitioner. It still needs human interaction to determine what those results might mean and play out for your company.

[34:32] Jana would not limit the research to what the AI brought back for a data set. AI can’t replace the human experience and reasoning ability.

[35:05] Another topic Jana sees, as we get to 2025, people are looking to the end of the decade from a risk perspective, taking a little longer-term view than normal for risk professionals, looking past current and emerging risk and thinking ahead. How are the risks of today going to progress to 2030? Justin invites Jana to come back in 2030 for a look back!

[36:32] Justin describes how he has eased into using AI for simple things.

[37:17] On May 6, at 2:45 p.m. in Room 25AB, Jana will co-host a RISKWORLD session, Sustainability Reporting: Making ERM Transparent: Environmental, Social and Governance. It may be one of the last times we see Bob Hirth speaking in a session with Jana. Bob has quasi-retired. They will reminisce a bit about what came true and what did not.

[38:57] Jana and Bob will take questions if there is time at the end and maybe during the session. Check out Sustainability Reporting: Making ERM Transparent. This is going to affect your organization!

[39:22] Jana, it has been such a pleasure to reconnect with you! We always find your insights very enlightening. We’ll have you back before 2030! Let’s set a date after we wrap and a date for 2030! Thank you, Jana!

[39:42] Special thanks again to Jana Utter for joining us here on RIMScast. She’s one of our favorites and she will be one of yours, too, when you see her live at RISKWORLD, on May 6th at 2:45 p.m. in Room 25AB for Sustainability Reporting: Making ERM Transparent! Registered attendees should use the RIMS Events App to get you where you need to go at RISKWORLD.

[40:08] Go to the App Store and download the RIMS App. This is an exclusive members-only benefit with all sorts of RIMS resources and coverage. It’s different from the RIMS Events App. Everybody loves the RIMS App!

[40:40] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact for more information.

[41:25] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit or email for more information.

[41:43] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[41:59] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at

[42:20] Thank you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!


Mentioned in this Episode:

RISKWORLD 2024 — San Diego, CA | May 5–8, 2024

RISKWORLD Pre-Conference Workshops



RIMS DEI Council

Spencer Educational Foundation — Grants Page

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops

RIMS ERM Conference 2024 — Nov 18-19 — Boston, MA — Call For Session Submissions by May 3.

RIMS Risk Management Awards Edition 2024

Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge — Live at RISKWORLD

SEC Climate Disclosures — March 2024 announcement

(On March 6, 2024, the SEC issued a final rule different from the proposed rule.)


RIMS Webinars:

Resilience In Turbulent Times: Navigating Geopolitical Challenges in Supply Chains | Sponsored by Moody’s | April 30, 2024

Respond to Emerging Risks with this Winning Property Loss Control Formula | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD GRC| May 23, 2024

Uncovering Hidden Risks in Your Third-Party Risk Management Program | Sponsored by EVIDENT ID | June 6, 2024

Unlocking the Value of Business Continuity and Insurable Risk Management | Sponsored by Riskonnect | June 13, 2024


Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops


Related RIMScast Episodes:

“ERM, ESG, and More Acronyms with Jana Utter” (2022)

“Scenario Planning in 2024 with the RIMS SERMC”

“RISKWORLD 2024 Keynote Peter Diamandis”

“Harnessing Innovation’s Promise with ERM Conference 2023 Keynote Bob Roitblat”

“Live From RIMS ERM Conference 2023”

“All Roads Lead to ERM”

“ERM’s Value Proposition with Chris Mandel”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Platinum Protection: Underwriting and risk engineering's role in protecting commercial properties” | Sponsored by AXA XL (New!)

“Elevating RMIS — The Archer Way” | Sponsored by Archer

“Alliant’s P&C Outlook For 2024” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Why Subrogation is the New Arbitration” | Sponsored by Fleet Response

“Cyclone Season: Proactive Preparation for Loss Minimization” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster


RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Manny Padilla!

Spencer Educational Foundation

“Leveraging Insurance and Risk Management to Address Political Risk” — RIMS Executive Report


RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play


Sponsor RIMScast: Contact or for more information.


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About our guest:

Jana Utter: Vice President, Enterprise Risk Management, Centene Corporation

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

It’s important as risk professionals to think of sustainability in the same way we think about enterprise risk management. We think about ERM as being important. Then sustainability is also important. — Jana Utter


There’s a lot out there and you can get overwhelmed by trying to meet the requirements or expectations of all of them. — Jana Utter


In reporting disclosure expectations bubbling up in emerging risks, it eventually gets the attention when the time is right. — Jana Utter


As we get to 2025, I’m seeing a lot of looking to the end of the decade, from a risk perspective, taking a little longer-term view than we normally do as risk professionals, coupling current and emerging and what may be new on the horizon, thinking ahead to 2030. — Jana Utter