Preview Mode Links will not work in preview mode


Oct 17, 2023

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Chris Mandel on his career highlights and service award, being RIMS President, how the tone of the profession has changed, and how ERM has evolved. They explore why having an organizational ERM group is still a tough sell. They discuss Chris’s sessions in the upcoming RIMS ERM Conference 2023 on November 2, with one session in the morning and one in the afternoon, and what members can expect when they attend. They wrap up the discussion with thoughts on the RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshop on December 13 and 14 and some insights into Chris’s popular ERM LinkedIn Group.


Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:14] Register for the RIMS ERM Conference 2023, which will be held in Denver, Colorado on November 2nd–3rd. RIMS will also host an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena in Denver on November 1st. Limited seating is available. Visit to register and listen to this episode to hear the code for 10% off your registration!

[:41] About today’s episode on all things ERM with former RIMS President, Chris Mandel.

[1:01] All about exciting, upcoming RIMS events! If you will be attending RISKWORLD 2024 in San Diego, California, take a moment to sign up as a volunteer judge on the panel of risk professionals in the Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge 2024.

[1:27] The top three teams will be awarded cash prizes and recognized at the Spencer reception and during the RISKWORLD Conference Finale. This is our annual international six-month-long university student competition. Full details can be found on the Spencer website at

[1:44] The application period closes on October 31st, 2023. Get involved; participate. We hope to see you at RISKWORLD!

[1:53] The RIMS Legislative Summit is returning to Washington, D.C. on October 25th and 26th. Head to the page to register.

[2:04] The RIMS ERM Conference 2023 will be held November 2nd and 3rd in Denver, Colorado. On November 1st, RIMS is hosting an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena, where the Denver Nuggets and Denver Avalanche play. There is limited seating. Register at At checkout, type code 2023RIMSCAST for 10% off registration!

[2:52] The ERM Conference 2023 will be different than years past. We’ve got some great changes. Book your travel plans now! RIMS will host a Post-conference Workshop for the RIMS CRMP from 9:00 to 4:00 MT on November 4th and 5th. Save $100 when you register for the conference and workshop in one transaction. Links are in the notes.

[3:23] Chris Mandel is well-known in the risk management community and among RIMS members. He served as RIMS President in 2002 and received the Harry and Dorothy Goodell Award for outstanding service and achievement in the risk management discipline in 2016. He’s had a wonderful career that seems to go on and on!

[3:48] Check out the link and listen to the RIMS Risk Leaders series episode I did with Chris a few years back. Chris is also the President and Managing Consultant for Excellence in Risk Management, an LLC based in Tennessee. He’s here today to discuss all things ERM.

[4:11] Chris will lead two sessions at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 in Denver, CO on November 2nd. In the morning, he will lead “The Value Proposition and Process for Operationalizing Risk Appetite Strategies and Frameworks.”

[4:28] In the afternoon, Chris, with leaders from HUB International, will co-lead a 45-minute session titled, “Nerd-Out on Numbers: Why Analytics Are Key to Extraordinary ERM.” Chris will also be leading a RIMS CRMP Virtual Workshop on December 13th and 14th. He just can’t quit risk management and we’re all better for it!

[4:55] Justin welcomes Chris Mandel to RIMScast. Chris was RIMS President in 2002–2003. Chris spent the first half of his career in traditional risk management in large corporations. In the first part of this century, Chris was asked to create an ERM strategy and ultimately became Chief Risk Officer for USAA in San Antonio, for 10 years.

[6:02] That was where Chris’s career became more progressive. Chris was on the RIMS board for seven years, was Risk Manager of the Year in 2004, and received the Goodell Award in 2016 for lifetime achievement. He has retired twice but he can’t seem to stop. He has a consulting firm specializing in ERM.

[6:27] Chris spent eight years doing strategic work for Sedgwick. He is on the faculty at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, where he teaches ERM. ERM is a key aspect of his skillset. The risk discipline is advancing and maturing, so there’s never a dull moment.

[7:41] The risk management profession has changed since 2002. In 2002, risk managers were focused on insurable risk. The Enron debacle raised the question of whether risk was being managed effectively in a lot of companies. Risk management became an explorative discipline of embracing risk and exploring the ERM version of the discipline.

[8:53] Chris calls the years since 2002 a time of expanding, exploring, and innovation until now when we are executing on things that were more conceptual in the past, employing progressive tactics and strategies to manage an ever-expanding landscape of risk for organizations that are increasingly being challenged by risks.

[9:29] ERM is constantly maturing. RIMS has published its second ERM maturity model. It’s recognition of getting to a level of maturity where we might accomplish some other objectives that might push this more from a discipline into a profession. Risk professionals need recognition in their organizations so they can influence decisions.

[10:17] Organizations are discovering the need for robust ERM and how it adds value in risktech and insuretech. If you ignore rare risks, and they blow up in your face, you get asked, “How did you miss that?” ERM is coalescing into an issue for serious practitioners who want to rise in the ranks to be more influential in their organizations.

[12:30] There are still detractors who believe all you need to worry about is how you insure the organization. They believe that as long as nothing uninsured blows up in their faces. Then they believe in ERM.

[12:45] Chris will present “The Value Proposition and Process for Operationalizing Risk Appetite Strategies and Frameworks” at RIMS ERM Conference 2023. Chris just co-authored a paper on risk appetite in financial institutions that is being considered for publication in a journal of risk management for banking.

[14:16] The presentation is to convince the audience that even if you’re not in financial services, there’s good reason why you want to manage risk to risk appetite. That’s a simple way to state what can be a very complicated approach and process. How can you manage risk if you don’t know how much risk you’re able to take or need to take?

[15:14] Chris will be presenting with Barry Franklin, former CRO for Zurich North America who is an actuary.

[15:31] In the afternoon, Chris, with leaders from HUB International, will co-lead a 45-minute session titled, “Nerd-Out on Numbers: Why Analytics Are Key to Extraordinary ERM.” Jeff Guttman and Chrystina Howard from HUB International, Client Analytics and ERM, had asked Chris to join them on this presentation.

[15:53] The session focuses on the evolution from total cost of risk (TCOR) to applying concepts and tools that get risk quantification done in a more robust way and move beyond just those things that are insurable. A lot of people are still skeptical about that. That’s one reason risk appetite frameworks and strategies are not always adopted.

[16:28] There will be some compelling arguments presented about some ways in which risk can be quantified that people may never have been exposed to. If you thought strategic risk was unquantifiable, you’re wrong. Strategic risk has been shown to be the most destructive kind of risk, over financial, operational, legal, and compliance risks.

[17:16] These two sessions dovetail nicely for Chris. They are hot topics for him, what he teaches at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, and what he practices in his consulting.

[17:32] RIMS plug time! Sponsor an episode of RIMScast! Contact us at Justin is pleased, humbled, and excited to announce that RIMS and RIMScast have won the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award on October 24, 2023, from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

[18:18] On Friday, November 10th, from 10 to 11, NYSAE is presenting a virtual program called ”Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association.” Justin is honored to be one of the panelists. A link is in this episode’s notes.

[18:35] Upcoming Virtual Workshops: Visit to see the full calendar. Our friend Elise Farnham returns on October 24th and 25th to lead the two-day course Fundamentals of Risk Management.

[18:56] Our friend Chris Hansen was recently on RIMScast. He will be leading Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability, and Employment Practices in the US on November 7th and 8th. Be sure to register for that course! Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[19:27] On October 26th, our friends from Zurich North America return to present PFAS Forever Chemicals – Regulations, Litigation, New Technologies. On October 31st, Resolver returns to present Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024.

[19:51] Metrics That Matter has Enhanced Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program on November 7. On November 21st, Beazley returns to present Business Risk: Helping Your Executives to Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment.

[20:11] There is a lot of great educational content for you in the next month! Visit to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[20:38] Even in college, Chris was deathly afraid of public speaking. For the last 15 or 20 years, it seems all he has done is talk to audiences. As RIMS President, he talked to conference audiences in the thousands. He traveled the world talking to chapters and regional conferences. It’s almost 2nd nature to him now. It’s what he loves doing.

[22:05] Chris brings that same feeling to a RIMS ERM 45-minute session on numbers as well as to an address. He makes it concise and engaging. He plans it as a conversation with the audience, including questions.

[23:46] Chris will be leading a RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshop on December 13th and 14th. Chris was in the first 200 to take the RIMS-CRMP as soon as he qualified for it. He felt he needed it if he was going to keep speaking on risk. There were no preparatory materials at the time but he passed. Now there are the Virtual Workshops to help you.

[24:55] Chris tells us how to be better prepared for the RIMS-CRMP examination. It’s a reflection of experience and knowledge that goes way beyond the surface. It’s designed to cause people to think. People need to properly prepare for it to get through it. CRMP reflects, more than anything, the advancement of the discipline closer to a profession.

[26:24] You can’t memorize the CRMP test. The test changes every time around. You’re learning core concepts in the workshop. The RIMS-CRMP is about what you’ve put into practice over the years; it’s an attempt to measure the depth of your experience, knowledge, and skills.

[26:44] Chris uses interaction in his presentation of the RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshop. It’s a combination of lecture and group exercises that keep people engaged throughout. Chris teaches it at the university or master’s level.

[27:40] Chris created an ERM LinkedIn group in 2004 or 2005. See the link in the show notes. It has around 51,000 members from around the world. Chris blocks people who try to sell things or present topics that do not relate to risk management. Justin is going to post a link to this episode on the group. Any ERM enthusiast can learn from Chris.

[31:03] Chris Mandel will be at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 in Denver, Colorado on November 2nd. The first session he’s going to do is 60 minutes, called “The Value Proposition and Process for Operationalizing Risk Appetite Strategies and Frameworks.” [31:19] In the afternoon, Chris, with leaders from HUB International, will co-lead a  45-minute session titled, “Nerd-Out on Numbers: Why Analytics Are Key to Extraordinary ERM.”

[31:26] Chris has always been supportive of Justin’s work at RIMS. Justin thanks Chris for joining RIMScast.

[31:41] Special thanks to former RIMS President, Chris Mandel for joining us on RIMScast. He’ll be leading sessions at the RIMS ERM Conference on November 2nd and 3rd and he will be leading the RIMS-CRMP Prep Virtual Workshop on December 13th and 14th. See links in this episode’s show notes.

[32:02] Go to the App Store and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Justin spoke with Chris Mandel a few years ago about some challenges he overcame during his career as part of the RIMS Risk Leaders audio series. That episode is now on the RIMS App so go check it out! Everybody loves the RIMS app!

[32:38] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact for more information.

[33:19] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit or email for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[33:43] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[33:59] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at and in print, and check out the blog at Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at

[34:21] Justin thanks you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!


Mentioned in this Episode:

RIMS ERM Conference 2023 | Nov 2–3 in Denver, CO! Enter 2023RIMSCAST at checkout for 10% off registration!

RIMS Legislative Summit — Oct 25 & 26, Washington, D.C.

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge 2024 — Be a Case Study or Join Judging Panel!

RIMScast to receive the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

“NYSAE Webinar: Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association”

ERM Group on LinkedIn

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

Chris Mandel: RIMS Risk Leaders Series (Audio Interview About Major Risks & Career Highlights)

Chris Mandel Receives RIMS’ Top Honors (Risk Management Monitor, 2016)


RIMS Webinars:

PFAS Forever Chemicals — Regulations, Litigation, New Technologies | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 26, 2023

Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024 | Sponsored by Resolver | Oct. 31, 2023

Enhance Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program | Sponsored by Metrics That Matter | Nov. 7, 2023

Business Risk: Helping your Executives Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment | Sponsored by Beazley | Nov. 21, 2023
Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Fundamentals of Risk Management | Oct 24–25

Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Nov 7

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

All RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops— Including Chris Mandel’s Dec 13–14 Course

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“Harnessing Innovation’s Promise with ERM Conference Keynote Bob Roitblat”

“ERM in Banking & Finance with Eleni Willis”

“The Future of AI and Work with Sinead Bovell”

“Genuine Generative AI Talk with Tom Wilde of Indico Data”

“Live from the RIMS ERM Conference 2022”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Cyclone Season: Proactive Preparation for Loss Minimization” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. (New!)

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Roland Teo!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council


Sponsor RIMScast: Contact or for more information.


Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on and listen on Apple Podcasts.


Have a question or suggestion? Email:


Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.


About our guest, Chris Mandel

President and Managing Consultant

Excellence in Risk Management, LLC, Nashville, Tennessee


Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

I spent the first half of my career in traditional risk management with companies like Verizon, The Red Cross, Marsh, and Pepsico. In the early part of the new century,  I was asked to create an ERM strategy and became CRO for USAA. That’s where I turned my career. — Chris Mandel


You can’t ignore the “black swans,” infrequent as they are, because as soon as you do, they’re going to blow up in your face, and then you’re going to get that question nobody likes, which is, “How did you miss that!?” — Chris Mandel


The test changes every time around. They’re learning core concepts in the workshop. The RIMS-CRMP is about what you’ve put into practice over the years because it is an attempt to measure the depth of your experience, knowledge, and skills. — Chris Mandel