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Dec 12, 2023

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.


Justin interviews Katherine Henry, Partner and Chair of the Policyholder Coverage Practice of Bradley, Arant, Boult, and Cummings in today’s episode. Katherine will be one of the presenters in the January 4th RIMS webinar, Nevada’s “Defense Within The Limits” Ban Explored. Justin and Katherine explore the risk trends of 2023 and what she expects from 2024. Next, they cover the upcoming webinar on Nevada’s new liability insurance “Defense Within The Limits” ban, what the effects of the ban are, and how the ban is expected to spread to other states. Katherine concludes with how she and her co-presenter at the webinar, Mark Habersack, expect to elaborate on this topic.


Listen in for a professional perspective on risk trends for 2024.


Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:14] Public registration for RISKWORLD 2024 is now open. Explore infinite opportunities with RIMS from May 5th through May 8th, 2024, in San Diego, California. Register at

[:31] In today’s episode, we will be rejoined by our good friend, Katherine Henry, of the law firm Bradley, Arant, Boult, and Cummings, to discuss legal trends from 2023 and what risk managers should expect in 2024.

[:58] The RIMS-CRMP is the only competency-based risk management credential. That matters because earning the certification shows employers and recruiters that you have the skills necessary to manage risk and create value for your organization.
[1:14] Several Exam Prep virtual workshops are coming up, starting on December 13th and 14th with former RIMS president, Chris Mandel. On January 13th, 20th, and 27th, 2024, the RIMS-CRMP Exam Virtual Workshop will be presented in conjunction with Conrad Clark Nigeria.

[1:37] The RIMS-CRMP-FED Exam Prep Virtual Workshop will be held on January 30th and February 1st. That’s a two-day course. Visit the certification page on for more information. A link is on this episode’s show notes.

[1:54] RIMS is gearing up for awards season. At RISKWORLD 2024, we will honor individuals, organizations, and chapters for their outstanding achievements in risk management. If you know someone who is truly making an impact on the risk profession and paving the way for future generations, consider drafting a nomination!

[2:13] The deadline to submit award nominations is Friday, January 5th, 2024. A link to the awards applications and guidelines page is in this episode’s show notes. Go to’s About Us page and see the awards link there. Nominations for Risk Manager of the Year have closed but other awards might appeal to you or a friend.

[2:41] Katherine Henry is the Partner and Chair of the Policyholder Coverage Practice at Bradley, Arent, Boult, and Cummings, a national law firm. Katherine and I will discuss the trends that drove the legal and risk professions in 2023, what to expect in 2024, and Nevada’s Defense Within the Limits ban that may set a precedent for other U.S. states.

[3:12] Katherine is one of the two presenters of an upcoming RIMS webinar called Nevada’s “Defense Within The Limits” Ban Explored, on January 4th, 2024 at 1:00 p.m. It will be presented by the RIMS Public Policy Committee. Register now, especially if you’re a RIMS member! This is going to be a big deal for you!
[3:37] Katherine Henry, welcome back to RIMScast!

[4:25] Katherine says risk managers have been really busy in 2023. She thinks first of cyber risk and cyber insurance. Insurers are getting their hands around it and premiums have escalated. Risk managers are finding they have to bring in IT and other folks to answer the much more complex questions on cyber. The cost of breaches has gone up.

[5:40] Katherine discusses recent big hacks. One of the biggest risks lies with your vendors. Insurers are looking at that when setting your premiums.

[6:19] Another big problem in 2023 is supply chain. It has become more difficult to insure it. It is difficult to procure business interruption insurance. Many insurers have left this market. Risk managers deal with this by eliminating sole sourcing and JIT warehousing. You have to have more goods and more local warehouse space available.

[7:55] AI is the next big risk on Katherine’s mind. The National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC) has been looking at AI for quite a few years and its impact on insurance. Insurers have implemented AI chat boxes in personal lines. For risk managers, the question is what are we going to see in commercial lines?

[8:41] Insurers may be able to use AI to assess damages better and to move more quickly. Risk managers will be dealing more with computerized platforms than individuals in the underwriting process. That’s a few years away. Because AI is being integrated into so many platforms, it’s a liability insurance risk for organizations.

[9:55] Climate change is another major concern Katherine has. We see its impacts on agriculture in what you can grow and where you can grow it. The effect on sea levels in ports is a concern. It will affect living conditions around the world. It will continue to be a high-level concern for risk managers.

[10:42] Katherine brings up the wars as another big concern for risk managers. Events have been canceled because of protest risk. We don’t know the eventual impact of the Israel and Hamas conflict. Russia has agricultural and oil risks. There is the risk of war with China and Taiwan.

[11:29] Swine flu and pneumonia are concerns now. There are respiratory illnesses among children in China. Illnesses and protests present physical risks.

[12:41] RIMS plug time! RIMS Virtual Workshops: Visit to see the full calendar. On January 16th and 17th, 2024, our friend and former RIMS president Chris Mandel will lead a two-day course, Captives as an Alternate Risk Financing Technique.

[13:02] On January 23rd and 24th, our friend Gail Kyomura will return to host Fundamentals of Insurance. Information about these workshops and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[13:18] On December 12th, Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk with Riskonnect. On December 14th, Aon will be Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for the Risks of Tomorrow. On January 4th, RIMS’s Public Policy Committee will explore Nevada’s “Defense Within The Limits” Ban. That’s why Kathy Henry joins us today.

[13:44] On January 16th, RIMS will present How Risk Managers Can Combat Human Trafficking In 2024. I’ll be hosting that session and will be joined by three expert panelists. I’m really looking forward to delivering this session and reaching you all.

[14:00] Visit to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[14:38] It’s difficult for organizations to take a political stand. People come at them from both sides. They are also challenged when they don’t take a position. It’s hard for organizations to know the right position to take. That’s an organizational risk. You can’t please all the people all the time.

[15:38] Runaway or out-of-control verdicts are a risk when you take a case to a jury. Something that should be resolved for $1 million or two could be a $40 million liability. Insurers are aware of this. Katherine warns risk managers to give notice to their tower of excess insurance when a risk comes up that could be subject to a “nuclear” verdict.

[16:48] Justin brings up nuclear verdicts in connection with recent PFAS settlements. RIMS did a webinar about it a month ago. Very high settlements open the door for future litigation or actions. Justin reads from Reuters on November 26th about a U.S. appeals court ruling protecting 3M and other companies in PFAS litigation from a class action.

[19:11] Katherine Henry will be co-hosting a webinar on January 4th, Nevada’s “Defense Within The Limits” Ban Explored. Katherine Henry and Mark Habersack are going to explore this ban.

[19:33] Katherine gives a high-level overview of the ban. There are two types of liability policies. One includes a defense that is outside the limits; other policies put the cost of defense inside the policy limits. A $5 million policy within the limits provides $5 million to pay defense and damages.

[20:11] The Nevada legislature wrote a new law that every liability policy in Nevada must include defense outside of limits, so insurers have an unlimited obligation to defend you until the case is resolved. The Webinar will talk about what caused that to happen in Nevada, what the potential solutions are, and the potential implications around the U.S.

[21:06] This legislation overturns the business relationship between insurers and insureds. Insureds will no longer be able to purchase less expensive defense within-limits policies. That change has immense financial consequences. Justin will be the host for that webinar.

[21:30] The legislation sets a time for this change to occur. Businesses need time to place liability coverage. Risk managers’s jobs have changed greatly from what they were 20 years ago when they were purchasing insurance and working with insureds. Now they’re assessing their enterprise’s risk. There will be a lot of work for 2024.

[22:28] Justin thanks Katherine Henry for joining us.

[22:42] Special thanks to Katherine Henry for joining us on RIMScast! You’ll hear more from Katherine on January 4th, 2024 during the RIMS Webinar Nevada’s “Defense Within The Limits” Ban Explored. She will be joined by former RIMS Nevada Chapter President, Mark Habersack. Register at and the link in the show notes.

[23:07] Go to the App Store and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS App!

[23:33] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact for more information.

[24:17] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit or email for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[24:42] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[24:59] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at and in print, and check out the blog at Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at

[25:21] Thank you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!


Mentioned in this Episode:

Riskworld 2024 — San Diego, CA | May 5–8, 2024

RIMS Riskworld Award Nominations — Jan. 5, 2024, is the deadline to submit nominations!

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)


Spencer Educational Foundation — Grants Page

Embrace The Unknown: Unleashing the Power of Risk | Hosted Live & In-Person by RIMS NZ & PI | Feb. 12, 2024

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

RIMS Risk Management Magazine: ERM Special Edition 2023


RIMS Webinars:

Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Dec. 12, 2023

Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for Tomorrow | Sponsored by Aon | Dec. 14, 2023

Nevada’s “Defense Within The Limits” Ban Explored | Presented by RIMS Public Policy Committee | Jan. 4, 2024

How Risk Managers Can Combat Human Trafficking In 2024 | Presented by RIMS | Jan. 16, 2024

Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Fundamentals of Insurance | Dec 12

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

All RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops — Including Chris Mandel’s Dec 13–14 Course

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“RIMS Public Policy and Advocacy 2023”

“Emerging Cyber Trends with Davis Hake of Resilience”

“Fleet Safety with Nets Executive Director Susan Gillies-Hipp”

“Cybersecurity Awareness Month with Pamela Hans of Anderson Kill”

“Betting It All On Risk: Mark Habersack, Heart of RIMS Award Recipient 2021”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

Why Subrogation is the New Arbitration” | Sponsored by Fleet Response (New!)

Cyclone Season: Proactive Preparation for Loss Minimization | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL


RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Chris Mandel!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council


RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact or for more information.


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About our guest


Katherine Henry
Bradley, Arant, Boult, and Cummings
Katherine Henry is the Chair of the Policyholder Insurance Coverage team. Katherine’s practice focuses on meeting clients’ business objectives in matters involving insurance. She regularly advises Fortune 10 and other companies on complex insurance programs involving manuscript and specialty policies, including programs with multi-national coverage towers of $500 million to $1 billion, and programs incorporating various risk transfer and financing mechanisms, such as fronting programs, paid deductible programs, and collateral agreements. Her practice spans all aspects of policyholder insurance coverage, from initial policy placement and renewals to claims management and litigation, both in the United States and abroad. Her past and present policyholder clients include two of the world's largest automakers, the world's largest home improvement specialty retailer, an auto insurance company, a vacuum cleaner manufacturer, a quasi-governmental defined benefit plan, numerous healthcare-related entities, a private-equity investment firm, various banks and financial institutions, and a national trade association for the gases and welding industry.


Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

For risk managers, this is really important. One of the biggest risks lies with your vendors, your third-party vendors. That can be the weak point. — Katherine Henry


There’s been a case reported of swine flu in the UK, now. There are these respiratory illnesses among children in China. It’s not a pandemic but it’s still a risk. — Katherine Henry


Runaway or out-of-control verdicts are something organizations are facing everywhere. It’s very difficult to take a case to a jury. Something that should be resolved for $1 million or $2 million could be a $40 million liability. Insurers are aware of that. — Katherine Henry